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Sageman's Blog

by Sageman from Orlando

Last Post 65 days, 15 hours Ago


With the recent news of the Army kicking out troops who are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PST) for Misconduct, do you think this is unfair? With a bipartisan bill in place to investigate the mistreatment of its own troops, no one is sure how far up the chain of command this procedural decision goes?

In many of the cases those who suffered from PST were given recommendation from doctors for a medical discharge, instead of discharges, these recommendations were ignored. The Army failed to treat the soldiers and which caused many of the soldiers to continue to deteriorate and eventually led to discharges for disorder conduct. This means a loss of all benefits for the soldiers discharged for misconduct, regardless of their tenure in the service.

My question is this, who do you think should be held responsible for this and how can we make restitutions to these soldiers?
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Member Comments Total Comments: 20
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candyaquino read my blog view my photos
Jun 14, 2008 | 8:41 AM

Thanks Sage..how are you? hope all is well. This topic is of a big interest, as all my years of marriage I JUST KNEW SOMETHING WAS NOT right with my husband. Though I begged many doctors to examine him, my complaints fell into def ears..and now 40 YEARS LATER..HE IS NOW DIAGNOSED WITH PTS AND SO MUCH MORE. Not fair NOT FAIR AT ALL...his so far gone it is hard to say if any full recovery will come. Frankly, I now need to learn to deal with this and educate myself and the children so that we can try at the very least to help him. It is very very difficult. I was told that the government or THE VA..is now giving restitutions and doing extensive evaluations. Again, I highly recommend the VA hospital by Baldwin Park the have a "benefit" office and that MAN IN THERE IS AWSOME.......I pray that if you are suffering or any and all families DON'T GIVE UP AND FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS..

candyaquino read my blog view my photos
Jun 14, 2008 | 8:43 AM

just so you know they are looking into these case from way back when. Though my husband had an honorable discharge it is still a long and exhausting waiting period. He is now starting to get treatment and thus THANK GOD...they do have medical from 1969 which no restitutions or any compensation was ever given. SO CALL, WALK DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO SPECIALLY IF MEDICAL PROOF EXIST. THE VA ARE WORKING WITH EVERYONE BUT THERE'S A HELL OF A LIST.

PegasusWing read my blog view my photos
Jun 14, 2008 | 9:33 AM

I do not care if anyone is held responsible.
The US government must now focus on correcting the abuse.
When doctors recommend treatment or medical discharge, the US Army, then, must take responsibility for the health and welfare of the men and women.
Parents are outraged when a soldier commits suicide because the army neglected their responsibility to the men even when medical professionals have reported that the soldier was having serious emotional problems.
"Service to the Country" is an honorable objective, but when someone can not handle what is required of them, then another avenue of service and treatement should be opened.
In any other private business, the victims would be allowed to bring a pricey law suit.
The Armed Forces should just take responsibility for the soldiers now.
Discharged soldiers with problems should be allowed to get help through military hospitals.
If they are declared incapacitated in any way, then the government must allow fair compensation.

PegasusWing read my blog view my photos
Jun 14, 2008 | 10:23 AM

You know, if I were hiring someone where body strength for heavy lifting was required, I would hire stong people, not old ladies who will be injured and permanently disable by the end of the first week.
If a job required driving forklifts in a warehouse store, I would not hire someone with myopic vision.
I think that the Army should screen applicants better, then a large percent of these problems could be avoided.
They have the same obligations toward their people as any business does.

Sageman read my blog
Jun 14, 2008 | 11:40 AM

paragraph 2, line 3 should read "discharged for misconduct" not "disorder Conduct."

Sageman read my blog
Jun 14, 2008 | 11:52 AM

Candy ~ I am fine, thanks for asking. That's to bad about your husband. I hope everything works out.

Pegasus ~ I would agree with you but I do think the Army is looking for more than just strong backs. I think what the Army did here was cover up the fact that the war was traumatizing some of its troops to limit bad press. Someone should be held accountable at the highest levels for this betrayal to our troops.

Ericjhach read my blog view my photos
Jun 16, 2008 | 8:06 AM

The military be fair? What world do you come from?
Just kidding.
For the government or military to admit to their mistakes would make them look human and they dont want to do that. It would mean they are equal to everyone else and in their small minds they want us to look up to them.

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Jun 16, 2008 | 2:54 PM

Ahhhh yes! PegasusWing hits it on the head!!

In the 90s the military started advancing and promoting its military via affirmative action quotas (aka diversity quotas) known as 12/12/5
Problem was that recruiting was not bringing in people under the same quota system, and there became a shortage of minority and females to meet the divsity goals. If a program was looking to fill 100 spots, and by law 12 had to be black. 12 hispanic, 5 asian or other and 20 female, if you only had say 10 blacks, then ALL of them were selected dispite their actual record, standing, or qualification compared to everyone else! The Marines were the ONLY branch of service to reject this quotal system, and the hand picked top brass of the Clinton era was doing everything it could to force the quotas to work!

These "quotas" are still in effect!!!

Imagine a sports team forced to do this, but only one team, all the others could build a team as they saw fit.. how many games do you think you would win?....
We send our diversity troops into battle against an enemy that does not!...

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Jun 16, 2008 | 2:58 PM

Cont. I remember a ship in the early 90s that had a crew of 40% female, and when it deployed, the Navy wanted to take all the women off the ship before sending it into the Gulf! Take 40% of the crew.. then send the ship into a combat zone, and expect the remaining 60% to do ALL the work and fight! And THEY ALL GET THE SAME PAY!!!

I am all for ANYONE wanting to serve! If you can fight and shoot, then come on lets go! But lets pick our military for their ability, NOT their gender or race!! Equal OPPORTUNITY NOT EQUAL POSITIONS!

mscsailor read my blog
Jun 16, 2008 | 5:39 PM

It may be different in the Navy, having served on merchant ships with mixed crews, on our ships it would probably have made little difference.

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Jun 16, 2008 | 6:48 PM

I served with women onboard a Destroyer Tender, Submarine Tender, Spruance class Destroyer, and an Aegis Cruizer. The remaining half of my career with Naval Special Warfare community, they didn't deploy or operate. Special Forces have been just driven into the ground as they are the ONLY part of any branch that train as warriors and to actually fight, rather than the "kinder/gentler" forces...

mscsailor read my blog
Jun 16, 2008 | 8:41 PM

Just imagine a "kinder, gentler" bos'n......

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Jun 16, 2008 | 9:20 PM

LOL! God in heaven will never let the planets aline in such a fashion to even allow for a kind boatsinmate!! There is no use for one!

The actual backbone of any naval organization!

Sageman read my blog
Jun 16, 2008 | 10:39 PM

Abunai tell any Marine or Army soldier that line of bs and you'ld get a kinder and gentler person handing you your teeth back. You are right on some aspects such as, affirmative action is hurting the military more than helping it, but the rest is misogynistic BS.

My ex-girlfriend was in the Army for 8 years and was a 1st Sergeant and fire arms instructor. Me and the boy's took her out to shoot some paintball one weekend and she kicked all of our buts. One of my friends was a navy seabee, the other served as a grunt in the Marines. They both had been combat trained and both of them were amazed at how bad getting a paintball in the head hurts.

The fact that someone is a specific sex doesn't keep them from being qualified for a position.
I do agree the best qualified should be the one chosen but let's be honest, in most cases, it has everything to do with a 4 year degree as to whether they will be chosen as an officer. Personally I never saw a 4 year degree that prepared anyone to lead people.

mscsailor read my blog
Jun 17, 2008 | 6:46 AM

Sageman says -" but the rest is misogynistic BS. "

Hockeypucks. I was a bon'n mate. Not wanting an affirmative action OS (ordinary seaman) OR officer on my fo'c'sle as a line handler wasn't misogynistic, it was a capability and safety issue. You and the liberal types don't want to hear it, but there is a LOT of resentment about equal pay for equal WORK. Many(no, not all) of the AA sailors I have seen play the gender game well.

By the way, there's a huge difference between paintball and the real world.

..and what's all the rambling about a 4 year degree for officers? It's pretty much always been a requirement (except for mustangs)- gender has nothing to with it.

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Jun 17, 2008 | 12:47 PM

Well Sageman.. Bring your Paintball warriors on over the Naval Special Warfare and lets just see how you all hang then!

Come on and lets see how well you shoot while you shiver from 50 degree water.. Lets see you keep your focus on all of that after operating for 36 to 48 hours straight. Maybe next time you can get your friends to do that, and then remember that when you pee or crap, that you do it in a ziplock bag and carry it with you too! Let me know when that mortar goes off next to you and your ears ring for 3 days!

This is why guys like Sen Kerry want to double the size of special forces! Because they have had to rely on them to do the work of their own AND work that used to get done by regular forces before we brought kinder/gentler into the ranks.

Never saw a 4 year degree prepare anyone? I offer to you Richard Marcinko (Tricky Dick) former Seal Team 6 officer that was stripped of command after he pulled off the operation of accessing the vulneralbility of our bases. He did it EXACTLY as the terrorist would, and the political nuts were so embarrassed that they destroyed the man and his unit for telling the truth!

MY GOD! I am SO glad I was privliged to serve with the most powerful, lethal, and respected community in our armed forces!!
Funny how you liberal hacks who served, disrespect the true warriors, but thats ok.. the respect is certainly there from our enemies.. They understand all too well!

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Jun 17, 2008 | 12:52 PM

Cont. I had a Greek Navy Capt. on a Cruizer once that picked up a fire hose, and could physically do ANYTHING he demanded of his crew to do! His own words.." I KNOW I can pull you out of a burning space and fight on!" ANYONE here that can't do the same.. get off my ship!

I too have seen women that carried their weight plus some, and yes they should have the opportunity to serve. But to FORCE feed a theory for mere appearances sucks!
We used to say.. "Well at least we will all die equal.."

Thank GOD! we have the new SECDEF taking to the Pentagon! He sheared off the top of the Airforce, and sent the message just 2 weeks ago, that the days of careerism are OVER! No more Bronze Stars for flying a desk!

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Jun 17, 2008 | 4:01 PM

Want to know who gets my vote... Jessy the Body Ventura!! The man is no nonsence, will NOT placate to idiots, and the world would know by certain terms, that America will teach you the lethal lesson of power if you mistake kindness for weakness. I say Jessy for President, and bring Tricky Dick in as VP or Sec.State!

Our enemies will be begging for us to just waterboard them!

Sageman read my blog
Jun 18, 2008 | 11:45 PM

First off I am an avid hiker and I learned to hike from an ex ranger who took me neck deep through swamps to camp over night with what I was able to carry in. I've hiked (for fun) from the Pacific North West to South America with a 75lb pack, through area's that most people would have crapped their pants in. I also have worked on a boat in the Pacific North West with swells that would make most puke to look at, let alone sail through (trying to earn money with a friend for a documentary we wanted to make.)

I know that women are at a disadvantage and probably not as qualified as men in certain positions. At the same point, some jobs they are able to do and and given flack for because a lot of the sexism is misogynistic in nature. Most would rather not admit it but the macho nature of the military doesn't want to admit that a women could do certain jobs.

I'm not saying that being a bos'n mate isn't a tough job, it is and probably most women wouldn't be able to do it, but at the same time there are jobs open on our ships that women are more than capable of doing. Should they be given preferential treatment? It's hard to say and it depends on the situation.

What I'm saying is that all people should be given a chance and the old boy club where women and minorities were delegated to enlisted ranks or limited MOS' is a part of the past for a reason. If we need to make it mandatory that a percentage of those who were historically discriminated against are insured a chance at a certain MOS or rank, then so be it. Should those that are unable to perform the duties of their

Sageman read my blog
Jun 18, 2008 | 11:46 PM

(cont.)

Should those that are unable to perform the duties of their MOS be able to retain their placement? No, because it puts others at risk.

Racism and Sexism is still a problem in the military, anyone who says different is either naive or blind. Until we can guarantee equality such laws are necessary.

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Sageman

I have been an actor, writer, and journalist, among other things. Currently I am getting ready to go back to school. I think that news, as clichè as it sounds, is one day away from being history. I enjoy reading, writing, running, biking and swimming. Ironically I hate the Triathlon. Yet I believe exercise is the key to a happy life! Politically I'm a Moderate Democrat and I listen to anyone's views, the only thing that really irks me is people who insult others for having different views. Which often makes me insult them in turn. I guess that makes me a Hypocrite... At least I won't be lonely.

Member Since: 3/19/2008