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Sageman's Blog

by Sageman from Orlando

Last Post 65 days, 17 hours Ago


I've been reading a lot of different articles lately and the ones that trouble me the most are those that involve children. I can't really see how people can do what they do to children. From sexual abuse, physical abuse and neglect, it all seems so hard to comprehend. What bothers me even more is how these horrible, horrible things seem to fall through the cracks. What you always hear is, "No one knew this was going on."

I don't believe that for one minute. I think in almost every one of these cases people knew or suspected what was going on but no one had the courage to get involved. As a result they put what they see in the back of their minds and later one day they come around and say to someone that will listen, "I thought things weren't right." So If that's what they thought then why didn't they do anything?

Heres something that happened to me about 8 years ago. I was in a supermarket in a small town in Washington. I was there with a friend doing some shopping when I saw this child pick up a box of something or other and then saw her father strike her on the back of the head so hard she fell to the floor. The girl was little more than a toddler. I looked around shocked that of the four people there, I seemed to be the only one who noticed what was going on. I watched as he yelled at the child (who was laying on the floor crying). It was when he raised his hand up to hit the little girl again that I stepped in and grabbed him. He threatened to have me thrown in jail and for some reason that upset me even more, I had a hold of his wrist so I twisted it behind his back and pinned him to the aisle. I don't know what the reason behind doing this was really, though I suspect it was because if I had let him go I would have busted his nose.

I remember looking at the little girl and seeing her more afraid of me than her father and I felt a little bad but what made it worse was the fact that she seemed to think it was perfectly normal for her father to strike her like that. I was the bad guy stepping in breaking up what was a normal part of her life. It was about that time when one of the managers came up and asked what was going on? I explained that he had just hit his child so hard that he knocked her to the floor. He denied it and we began to argue. Store security came and stood with both of us while the manager went and reviewed the security tape. It was all there on the tape luckily. So in the end the police came and took the child away to stay with relatives and the father went to jail. The cops debated charging me with assault charges but decided against it. I got lucky in hind sight, Washington state is a lot different than Florida, I wouldn't suggest doing that here or you would sit a couple years in prison.

I 'm also amazed how people are unable to distinguish between normal and abnormal behavior. Case in point, a man I knew in Washington walked in to his neighbors apartment to find his neighbor holding his 9 year old naked step daughter in his lap. My friend asked some of us what we thought he should do and we all said he should report him to be safe. He called Child Protective Services, they investigated and decided that there was nothing bad going on. Which after hearing the whole story I believe it to be true. Even so, It always bothered me that he didn't just call them? I mean seriously, seeing a man holding a naked child in his lap, wouldn't that ring odd to anyone. There may have been nothing going on but I think to most people it would send up some flags or maybe I'm just paranoid.

I asked an acquaintance of mine who works with Department of Children and Families how people seem to get away with abusing children and she told me that many times the child is afraid to tell anyone. Furthermore adults are afraid to tell anyone either for fear of being wrong and causing the parents pain, even worse they might be sued or prosecuted for what they say. Even more disturbing is that many refuse to report suspected abuse because being proven wrong would be embarrassing for them. This stunned me to hear. I can't imagine that someone would be afraid to do the right thing because doing the right thing might hurt someones feelings or embarrass them. I mean seriously it blows me away that people could have the mind set.

I had a friend of mine tell me how she saw some of her neighbor hood kids smoking behind her house. I asked her why she didn't tell the kids parents and she said, why bother, they aren't her kids. This seemed to be the main consensus with most of the mothers there and yet once again I am amazed. Does it take a life or death situation before things become important enough to get involved?

Again it comes down to the "me, me," syndrome in America. People have this idea that everything is about them, and even though it might concern someone else, the final decision will always be based on how it affects them the most. Some people seem unable to act with out seeing if there are benefits in it for them. If there are none, then so be it, let someone else get involved. So tell me, if everyone begins to have this mindset, what happens then?

You remember the woman in Austria held hostage by her father and raped repeatedly, she gave birth to 7 children with one of them dieing. Neighbors all said something was odd but they didn't get involved because it just was not socially accepted to pry in others lives. People don't get involved in other peoples business in Austria. In fact you can know a man for 40 years and he will still call you, "Herr Smith" or "Frau Grisom" as a sign of respect . It's also to say, I don't know you well enough for you to get involved in my life.

I think that's what's happening in America, people are becoming socially ambivalent towards others, for much of the same reason too. We no longer live in  houses with big yards, we are right next to each other, sometimes our houses are feet away from our neighbors. It cuts into our privacy, as a result we decide to cut ourselves off from the neighborhood around us. We might know our neighbor's names but we don't know them, nor do we really care to anymore. It's all about retaining what privacy we have left in our little worlds. To do this we ignore whats going on around us and we expect others to do the same. That is until someone else does something that might shatter this little bit of home we have created. To me this seems wrong on so many levels.

I grew up knowing all my neighbors, and honestly, I just had to sit in the kitchen with my mother and her neighbor friends. In under 10 minutes I would know everything going on for the whole block. It seemed nosy but at least then people seemed to care about what was going on in their neighborhood. It was the odd person that didn't care or didn't get involved. Instead of how it is now, being ostracized for caring, in the old days you were shunned for not caring.

I even remember times when my brother and I were caught doing something wrong and the person who caught us in the act would take us to our parents and tell them what we were doing wrong. O.K. so I'm getting a bit nostalgic here about the, "good ol' days." Still I won't say it was some sort of urban utopia in those days, because a lot of the bad things I've talked about here went on then and was ignored as well for much the same reason.

Yet today we supposedly know better, and these horrible things still get swept under the rug by people who just don't want to get involved or even worse just don't care. That brings us around full circle, anyone got an opinion?

I remember a post on the blogs here not to long ago where someone child was threatened and they commented about the boy who threatened their child with something to the affect of, "Everyone knew that boy, he's from a bad family. They need to throw him in jail." My question is If he's in a bad family and you knew that they were doing bad things, did you ever talk to anyone about it before it affected you and your child? If not, why? I'm not blaming anyone for anything just curious how far things have to go before people do get involved?

Anyone Have any story's on how they got involved or didn't and wished they had when they saw or suspected something bad was going on with a child?

19 Comments |  Add a Comment

Member Comments Total Comments: 19
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Sageman read my blog
May 18, 2008 | 1:06 AM

Wow This ended up really long. See what happens when I start to ramble. No wonder my friends say I talk to much.... sigh...

Hawkeye read my blog
May 18, 2008 | 9:36 AM

You should hear MY friends..LMAO..
In fact,, if I stopped talking long enough,, I might even hear them..LOL..

DeborahLakeHelen read my blog view my photos
May 18, 2008 | 10:50 AM

I turned my Sister-In-Law in to DCF, after receiving a tearful phone call from my brother. He told me he had just walked in on his b!t@h of a wife wiping a poopy diaper in the face of his 4 year-old Autistic son. I LOST IT! That baby had been through SO much in his young life all ready. In fact, I'M NOT convinced his Autism isn't a direct result of HER abuse, but we won't go there. I told DCF who I was, my name, my relationship to the family, that I was the wife of a Deputy Sheriff
and a Victims' Advocate. I told them I DID NOT CARE if they told them WHO told! (and they did!) My brother called me 2 hours later, screaming at me, asking why I had turned her in, and I was like, WHAT? What did you think I was going to do? Long story short: There was enough evidence after the interview with my brother, (he didn't deny it) that they were kept under supervision, counseling and scrutiny
for a year. My brother and I have barely spoken since. THAT breaks my heart, but EVERYONE else in my family, my parents and other siblings have stood behind my decision 100%. I would do it again, to him, my best friend, the people down the street, whomever, under the same circumstances. Good for you, Sage!

Sageman read my blog
May 18, 2008 | 1:27 PM

Deborah - Thats my point about people not being to distinguish from abnormal and normal behavior. I think what you did was right. Some people actually need to take classes on parenting and how to deal with children. You did the right thing in my book.

BornToBeWild read my blog view my photos
May 18, 2008 | 1:54 PM

Kids today have gotten way out of hand and thanks to our governments big butt in noses, they have taken away parents rights to disapline and now kids use it to go wild! They can't define the differences of between what is truly child abuse and what is disapline!

Sageman..I myself have witnessed something simular and I lost it and was almost into a fight over it until someone else stopped me. I have "0" talerance for people who do that! They loose their tempers just like I do on them! I know exactully where you are coming from!!!!

KUDOS DEB! At least you held your temper better then I would have because she would have found herself trying to get up from the floor or ground slowly and hurting!

DeborahLakeHelen read my blog view my photos
May 18, 2008 | 2:33 PM

Thank you, Sage.
Born, Baby, Luckily for HER, I live here in Lake Helen, and she lives in Orlando! If I had witnessed the cruel, disgusting act, I seriously doubt that she would have walked away.

TAllen read my blog view my photos
May 18, 2008 | 3:31 PM

Wow Sage! First: Excellent post! (I always enjoy reading the things you write no matter how long...lol j/k))Second:KUDO'S for stepping up. It was the right decision.

Now, this blog opens so many issues I could probably write a book in response, but...I am going to restrain myself here (difficult as that is...lol) and just respond like this....

When it comes to children I will always choose to err in their favor reguardless of the potential for personal embarassment or anything else. Children have little or no voice in this country so unless an adult is willing to stand up for them and stand beside them they remain mute.

When it comes to any woman or man who IS the victims of abuse I again will err in favor of the them, because I have walked those shoes and know that pain first hand. They need someone who can and will believe and is willing to stand strong for them when they can not do it for themselves.

Neither DCF or the police are perfect and many times they are fighting an up hill battle agains the courts and the victims themselves. Yes, I do believe they turn a blind eye far to often but I often wonder how much of that is a "learned" response? That is not to make any excuses for them, because there are no excuses in this situation, it just an observation.

Finally, when you got "nostalgic" about the good old days, I understand what you mean. You would think that having come so far from the days of "we don't talk about that kind of thing" thinking, to where we are today something would have changed, but sadly we are still as "distant" and "hush-hush" as

TAllen read my blog view my photos
May 18, 2008 | 3:32 PM

they were back then.

The best I can say here is that as a parent I treasure my children and others as well, with ALL their faults. They ARE children and should NEVER have to worry about such things. There is a difference between teaching discipline and abuse. Maybe it a result of so many "kids" having kids before they are able to be parents who knows but that too is not an excuse. Parenting is a difficult thing to do. You get no manuals, no directions and you can't just give them back (well maybe you can but thats not the point...lol) Maybe it needs to start with "teaching" others how to be a parent before they are, but until then THANK GOODNESS we have people like You, Deb, Born and I (and dozens more I am sure) that are willing to take the risks to protect those unable to protect themselves.

OK sorry it was a book after all...I will try harder next time...I promise. :0)

TAllen read my blog view my photos
May 18, 2008 | 3:35 PM

Deb ~ I would like to ask you to contact me via email because I would really like to talk to you about something you said but I don't want to do it here.

Thanks
Fastblnd@yahoo.com

80sMetalHead read my blog view my photos
May 18, 2008 | 8:30 PM

awesome post, Sageman. Reading everyone's posts has me shaking my head in disbelief. How could people do such things?? Absolutely heartbreaking.

PegasusWing read my blog view my photos
May 18, 2008 | 8:46 PM

Deb, I did a blog on the New Autism. That is caused by neglect. Some people simply do not know how to be parents. They insist that children need beatings. What children need is love and approval. Attention is everything to a child. The Biblical misquote, "Spare the rod and spoil the child." should be taken literally as a command. Children just need to be loved. Those incapable of loving children shouldn't have them.

Sageman read my blog
May 18, 2008 | 11:18 PM

Thanks for the comments. I appreciate the positive feedback and it's good to see others both see that we need to make some changes and that changes are possible. I think it comes down to people becoming involved.

BornToBeWild read my blog view my photos
May 19, 2008 | 12:09 AM

No, what the children need is to learn respect and values! A very high percent has no clue what so ever because they come and go when and where they please and have way too many things to get into now with all the technology. There are so many that no longer really have that family time any more!

If I got as involved as I wish I could...I would be sued(if they lived or was hurt really bad) and/or imprisoned(if they died or was hurt really bad)! Either way I come out the Loser and the kid go home. I have a bad temper when it comes to child abuse! I know I would really lose it on someone that sexually asaulted a child...that person wouldn't get the chance for trail or jail but they would see which direction they will go after death!

DeborahLakeHelen read my blog view my photos
May 19, 2008 | 8:22 AM

Pegasus, my brother has done everything humanly possible for his son. He's spent over $50,000.00 on Chelation Therapy, Physical Therapy, both water, gym and one on one with a trainer, one on one speech and occupational therapy, on and on. Then here comes this crazy B- wife of his to unravel all he's tried to do. When I reported her, his biggest fear was the "baby" being taken away. I guess, at that moment, he thought he could handle it. He now realizes I did the right thing, by putting her in the "spotlight." I'd rather see her in a grave! I absolutely ABHOR people who hurt children and elderly people! IT MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!!!

dks75 read my blog
May 19, 2008 | 10:02 AM

Actually just yesterday, the middle aged lady working at home depot chimed in after I got after my two 3 year olds for hopping in and out of the cart on their own. She said to my kids wait till you get home, your going to get a swat. Because if you got a swat here someone would call the police. LOL

Now things like what Deborah said happened just pisses me off that people can harm children like that. There is absolutely no need for that type of thing.. That makes me want to abuse a parent :)

TAllen read my blog view my photos
May 20, 2008 | 4:10 AM

I always told my kids when they were young that our house wasn't a democracy it was a dictatorship and Dad and I ruled. We never abused them but we did set rules to live by and that included consequences when broken. They were often told that they were free to call the police but to request an ambulance because I was not going to jail for no reason. Of course that was an idle threat but they didn't know that. My oldest tested the waters more than once but it was a day in the grocery store that I think brought home the message that we were not kidding. Keep in mind please that I was 29 at the time and I had 4 little ones ages 8, 3 and 2 and 1. At these ages they often repeat everything they hear. We were standing in line at the grocery store and there were two boys in line in front of me, and an elderly woman behind me. These boys were using language I had not heard come out of a sailors mouth. Everything was F this and that. I tapped one on the shoulder and asked him politely to watch his language as I had little children and there were older people that were becoming uncomfortable. His response was...whatever lady. The second time I asked he got snarky and said..."who the f are you...your not my mom"! Sadly my brain disengaged at this point and I told this kid..."your right I am not, if I was you wouldn't have any teeth". He looked me square in the eye and said..."f you" and one second later my hand connected with his mouth as I told him say it again and you WON'T have any teeth. His friend was rather shocked and so was the cashier, but I think he was shocked most of all.

TAllen read my blog view my photos
May 20, 2008 | 4:10 AM

They paid for there stuff in silence and left the store. The clerk said to me, aren't you afraid they will do something? I told her no...what kid is going to go home and tell his parents he got slapped in the mouth for cussing at some woman? I paid for my things and as I head out to the car and was loading them this kid approached me. He said, "you know I could call the cops on you" and before I could say a word my oldest pipes up and say..."don't forget the ambulance"! The older lady who had followed me out about fell over laughing. The kid just walked away. Of course this was 18 years ago. If I did that now I would be in jail. The point I am trying to make is that discipline has a place in every kids life but as a parent you have to know where to draw the line and not let it become abuse.

DeborahLakeHelen read my blog view my photos
May 20, 2008 | 8:29 AM

ROFLMAO! That reminds me of the time my Mom was pulling out of a gas station in our station wagon. My one brother was around 8, and he was pissed because my Mom had refused to buy him a soda, or candy bar, or something. He threw his lunchbox at her, hitting her in the back of the head. They were metal back then. She slammed that car into reverse, parked, threw open the back door, jerked him out by his shirt, pulled his shorts down, and proceeded to beat his fanny right then and there. About that time, a motorcycle cop drove up, he stopped, and said, "What's the problem, Ma'am?" My Mom told him what my brother had done, and the cop said, "If that was my kid, I'd take off this belt, and whup him until he couldn't walk!" Needless to say, my brother never did anything like that again, grew up to be a fine upstanding citizen with a Master's Degree, and a Bachelors Degree, and 4 very well behaved kids of his own!

DeborahLakeHelen read my blog view my photos
May 20, 2008 | 8:31 AM

P.S. That's NOT the same brother with the Autistic child.

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Sageman

I have been an actor, writer, and journalist, among other things. Currently I am getting ready to go back to school. I think that news, as clichè as it sounds, is one day away from being history. I enjoy reading, writing, running, biking and swimming. Ironically I hate the Triathlon. Yet I believe exercise is the key to a happy life! Politically I'm a Moderate Democrat and I listen to anyone's views, the only thing that really irks me is people who insult others for having different views. Which often makes me insult them in turn. I guess that makes me a Hypocrite... At least I won't be lonely.

Member Since: 3/19/2008