RNC08's Blog

Cellulose ethanol moving us away from the more polluting and expensive corn ethanol will be welcomed. Here is a brief article about the first plant that is supposed to be on-line by 2009. If you use the copy function....make sure that you get the whole web site address entered.

http://gas2.org/2008/04/02/worlds-first-commercially-vi
able-cellulosic-ethanol-plant-online-2009/

...good one Shadows but it does not give the address for the the new plant , I saw a link three days ago (on a farm-bill related site) that said construction has started on a plant in Tampa that will be on line before the end of the year and they to are going to be using cellulose...not sure yet weather they are using the enzyme of syngas method ...but we do have the same company that is building the “garbage reactor” for Tallahassee in line to build a co-generation cellulose ethanol plant by 2010
My biggest fear is that the cost of oil will drop to $90 and we will do just what we did last time ...1981 when we just went right back to the way things where in the 60'S and waited until the next “energy crisis” to do any of the things we are talking about...

I guess I fall into category 1 then.

RNC08, it was interesting that you mentioned some of our history (1981). What I especially have found interesting are the similarities of the present situation with oil and the situation back with oil back in the early seventies with the Nixon administration.

The intentions of OPEC to use oil to influence foreign policy, the presence of George H.W. Bush, a key player being the Republican national chairman and promoting domestic oil, and Ken Lay as a deputy secretary of energy. Of course George H.W. Bush had been an independent oil man before becoming a congressman.

An excellent discussion of it can be found in "Rightward Bound" a book by Schulman and Zelizer.

As you probably noticed, I agree with the cellulose (garbage) ethanol concept, but not the corn starch ethanol addition to gasoline which is not as clean and reduces mileage at the same cost of pure gasoline.

...as for who will pay for the pumps that would be the station owners who already have to replace pumps and tanks every 5 years on average so the cost of adding E85 (you say I say E100!!!) will be negligible. The first “brand” opening E85 pumps in our area will be Gate Fuel they will have a few pumps near Coco Beach before 09 .
I “notice” that you are still saying that ethanol is dirtier than gas ...this is not true ! The study (and there was only one) has already being discredited long before it was popularized in the media . It is a far cry from the actual .3% higher 03 (ozone) content that is produced from an ethanol burning engine to the 300% that you are talking about! As far as lower MPG yes an engine designed for low octane gas does run at lower mpg but you never bother to mention that an engine designed for “high test gas” does not lose MPG on ethanol (actually it drops by 3% to 5%)...as far as ethanol costing just as much as gas that is as always completely false! Pure ethanol or E100 has a current production cost of $1.64 cents a gallon and the “extra cost” that is making it equal comes from transportation cost and profiteering !....that is unless you are talking about water effluent from “wet process production”*

..I am also for McCain's energy plan , I do not think the government should be getting as heavily involved in energy as they are with “Solar energy” any truly viable new energy will be able to thrive in the market with nothing more than the tax cut ! I also am with McCain because he is for domestic drilling for both oil and natural gas as well as atomic energy for our electric needs...Obama is dead set against all three of those options , under his “plan” we will salve everything by continuing to pay what we currently are for gas and just “cut back” ...it is pure fantasy to think we can be energy independent without oil, and we need our problem fixed NOW not in a 100 years....

Also on the subject of “pollution” (shadows) the question of VOC's is moot with a dry-mill process ethanol facility and as far as calling evaporated ethanol a “pollutant” don't look for me to support the idea that “spilling beer will destroy the environment” ! Alcohol evaporates and is not dangerous....on the subject of CO2 everyone complaining about the level of CO2 from ethanol burning cars needs to tell me how much CO2 does oil drilling remove from the environment ??? because growing corn (and other plants) is equal to 4 tons per acer per year of CO2 removed from the environment....you just can't compare alcohol to gas and not address all the steps along the way before pointing fingers and making unsupported statements of “pollution”

LOL yeah they could contain alot of pollutants :P..

I'm gonna try to find some more info on the clean air act amendments. The one link I read did make alot of sense. We didnt use pure gas much before MTBE was banned, because we produced enough. Anyways if I can find some more info I'll post it.

You are all a lot smarter than I... Hahahaha And I don't trust one thing Obama says either.

Don't really know who am “smarter than” Man , but i do work on this subject. As far not trusting Obama ...this would be one of the things I would need to know he is NOT going to fallow threw on ! I would be a lot less worried about this guy if I was sure that he will not do ANY of the things he is promising ! It would be OK if he turned out to be a hand puppet like Jimmy Carter but he is far more likely to actually do some of what he is saying like Adolf Hitler (closed political figure that can be drawn to Obama , just put the word “Rich” in place of the word “Jew” and you will find they both have been using the same speech writer!)

I am FOR small business.

O Norty whatever am I going to do with you...the “problem” is that a small business in this instance is described as having less than half a million dollars in assets while the smallest possible biomass ethanol plant has a price tag of 20 million dollars (so no one who could build a viable plant will qualify for a grant) and IF you build a plant that is worth 20 million dollars you will no longer qualify for the tax break for producing renewable fuel....I never said I was against “small business” (hell I am one!) but we are talking about a self defeating “loop-hole” that will put and end to the whole idea...would you / will you be as happy when Obama applies the same thinking to Solar Power and makes all current facility in the US pay full taxes and will only give grants/tax cuts to new facility's that have the same “small business” qualifications ??
Hey what am I worried about I already have three small farmers ready to go into business with me and trust me I have a lot less than $500,000 in the bank ! So this is going to work for me no mater what , I roll with the times.....

Funny I expected Norty to come back and explain why he will be supporting Obama no mater what direction the man takes!

Really so you want what ? For all of us to make our own fuel at home ...that is a bit impractical, I accused you of supporting Obama's plan for changing our energy independence policy ...because it is his idea to make funds and tax breaks available only to “micro brewery's” LOL I am well aware that I can make ethanol at home but there are limits to how much any one person can make and where it is legal ...that and the “biomass” method is still out of reach for most of us (anyone with less than 40 million!) and high efficiency “dry method” production...so this limit is a crippling blow to using new technology, and keeps all ethanol production limited to the use of corn and sugar...just like the government has wanted all along ! We have a chance now to make ethanol more than just a “special interest” pork barrel bonus for corn belt states and make it a viable sustainable part of energy independence !