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'GET-R-DUN'

by Mater01 from Radiator Springs, Ar

Last Post 5 days, 14 hours Ago


DNR’s are not unheard of these days and some people do in fact make this a legal and binding bill of order.  On the medicine wards, you will come across patients who have a "Do-Not-Resuscitate" order on their chart. You will also be in situations where you are asked to discuss with a patient whether they want to or should have resuscitation following a cardiac arrest or life-threatening arrhythmia. Like many other medical decisions, deciding whether or not to resuscitate a patient who suffers a cardiopulmonary arrest involves a careful consideration of the potential likelihood for clinical benefit with the patient's preferences for the intervention and its likely outcome. Decisions to forego cardiac resuscitation are often difficult because of real or perceived differences in these two considerations.

 

When can CPR be withheld?   Virtually all hospitals have policies which describe circumstances under which CPR can be withheld. Two general situations arise which justify withholding CPR:

When CPR is judged to be of no medical benefit (also known as "medical futility"; see below), and

When the patient with intact decision making capacity (or when lacking such capacity, someone designated to make decisions for them) clearly indicates that he / she does not want CPR, should the need arise.

 

When is CPR not of benefit?  One approach to defining benefit examines the probability of an intervention leading to a desirable outcome. CPR has been prospectively evaluated in a wide variety of clinical situations. Knowledge of the probability of success with CPR could be used to determine its futility. For instance, CPR has been shown to be have a 0% probability of success in the following clinical circumstances:  Septic shock, Acute stroke, Metastatic cancer, Severe pneumonia, In other clinical situations, survival from CPR is extremely limited:  Hypotension (2% survival), Renal failure (3%), AIDS (2%), Homebound lifestyle (4%), Age greater than 70 (4% survival to discharge from hospital)

 

Who is the only one (s) that can change this order?  Legal guardian with health care decision-making authority >> Individual given durable power of attorney for health care decisions >> Spouse >> Adult children of patient (all in agreement) >> Parents of patient >> Adult siblings of patient (all in agreement)

 

When does this become a violation?   A physician is prohibited by the bill from willfully failing to follow the procedures for transferring a patient who possesses DNR identification but whose attending physician is unable or unwilling to follow the do-not-resuscitate protocol for the person. The bill also prohibits anyone who has personal knowledge that another person has revoked a do-not-resuscitate order or personal knowledge that a physician has issued an order that supersedes a previous do-not-resuscitate order from purposely concealing or withholding that information in order to cause the use or withholding of CPR. Violators are guilty of a misdemeanor of the third degree.

 

This happened to my friend who was married to my Cherokee Sister.  My Sister died 2 ½ years ago from heart failure in her sleep at her happiest moment which is the way most people would prefer to go.  The only closest family left to argue any DNR would be me.  But I was never notified!  Even if I was, I would never go against his decision anyway!

 

Here’s what happened…..Blaine ~ (Two Snakes) legally had a DNR order done up following his open heart surgery which happened a year after Cindy’s (White Hawk) death!  He suffered a massive heart attack which placed him on the operating table.  While on the table, they made a big mistake and over dosed him causing his heart to stop!  To cover up their mistake they violated his DNR order and resuscitated him.  Now he suffers with heart beating and pounding like crazy often causing him a great deal of pain which I noticed would happen about every ten to fifth teen minutes.  He was really mad that they violated him like that because he doesn’t care to live in such a manner.  The doctor told him when they released him to get his affairs in order which was the reason for my trip up which I had to take.  After he explained to me what happened and knowing and seeing what he now has to go through….He had every right to be upset!  Although he has been given the chance that most do not get, to make sure everything is in order for his death, no one should be placed or forced into a situation of continuous pain and agony!  It hurt to see him suffer all the intense attacks which can not be prevented until his actual death!

 

What would you do?   Would you argue anyone’s DNR right?   Do you think doctors should be allowed to violate this right by any means they deem necessary?   What do you think about this?

 

GET-R-DONE

Mater

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Member Comments Total Comments: 19
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pattiep read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 8:11 AM

The doctor has no right to disobey your DNR. No matter what.
I can't believe they would leave Two Snakes to live in pain the rest of his life. This is a very upsetting story and I feel so bad for him and all his family that has to watch him go through so much pain in his last days.God Bless Him

northton read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 10:31 AM

That's a tough one. As a pretend doctor, I might feel that he wants a natural death if things don't go well, but I might ought to save him from something I did to prematurely kill him.

But why would you get a DNR and then have surgury?

Gammies61 read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 10:47 AM

Well, the Doctor messed up twice. See, this is weird, the doctor was the one who caused his heart to stop with the wrong dose of medicine, so I'm not sure in this case, what is right or wrong. Don't they have to stop the heart in order to do open heart surgery? I was told they did, so if they do, he would have had to have his heart started back up any way.

By the way, I'm so happy you made it home safely. Merry Christmas, Mater01.

SlidingInSideways read my blog
Dec 18, 2007 | 12:18 PM

Hospitals and doctors routinly disregard DNR's. My mother had a standing DNR in her chart after suffering a major heart attack and stroke some years ago yet on April 21 she suffered yet another majory heart attack and was "dead" before she hit the ground but the hospital resuscitated her 4 times by her primary care doctors orders (he never even came to the hospital) despite our arguments that they follow the DNR. I had been named her Health Surrogate and they just totally ignored me. Instead they put my father through hell as he watch each time she flat lined and they brought her back. Finally after the 4th attempt I threatened to bring in my attorney if they did not follow the DNR. Thankfully they let her go after that. Later the autopsy showed that her heart had blown completely apart leaving just enough muscle to pump for a few minutes. The Coroner described it as winding up a clock that had no ability to keep time. When I approched her primary care doctor and explained the pain he had cause this family his only words were...'Not my problem, I didnt' want to risk being sued'.

Mater01 read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 1:00 PM

Northton...he did that because of everything he has been through with his health and all the surgery's. After Cindy's passing he has been alone. He said he has had a very full life and he is ready to go. Besides that he also found that with all the medicines he was precribed, they were posioning him. Once he found this out he quit taking them period and has stuck with his natural herbal teas and roots. He feels good except for all the attacks he is now induring. He has wires in his back which some of those wires broke and has caused painful pressure. He has wires in his ribs which also broke and has caused further painful problems...all in all he has indured plenty. Cindy was the only thing that kepted him going.

Mater01 read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 1:06 PM

Gammies...this was a massive heart attack following the open heart surgery and a cover up for their mistake. His chest never healed correctly. The upper rib cage did heal good but the lower rib cage with the wires has not and the wires broke causing painful pressure. When he would have these little attacks, you can see from his chest his heart beating like crazy...it was that visible!

Merry Christmas!!!!

Mater01 read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 1:12 PM

PattieP...I told him that he should file a complaint and law suit. He made a good point by saying he wouldn't be around long enough to see it all through. I in return said what is the use of a DNR order if it is violated if you don't think your going to be around long enough to do fight them on it. I will say this...I have left instructions that I be called if he should suffer another massive attack so I can hurry up there a witness. I hate the thought of making them decissions but I respect his choice and rights and will make sure it is carried out as he has so specified.

Mater01 read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 1:15 PM

SlidinginSideways....You've been there done that kind of thing! So you know! Of course he goes through the VA because he is a Veteran.

candyaquino read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 2:01 PM

Mater01, I am deeply sorry to hear all of this and Two-Snakes has rights..tell him to talk to an attorney right away. those DNR are to be guarded like a Will...and if that didn't happened then there's a violation. I am sorry you have to go through this and like I've told you before My prayers are with you and Two-snakes..but please TALK TO A LAWYER ASAP....

candyaquino read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 2:04 PM

p.s. Mater01...TwoSnakes has to know...that eventhough, he wont be around for the suit, HE WILL BE HELPING OTHERS....but I hope that will not be the case. What's important, is that he was violated and he deserves to bring that to justice and with that he will be saving other's and I am sure, if he's everything you said he is, that would be a satisfaction for him knowing that his suit WILL BE FOR OTHERS...lots of luck

Georgies-Girl read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 4:59 PM

I also know of a DNR being ignored. A lady I worked with had it happen to her mother. Her mother was destitute. She came here to see her daughter and another child in Miami and she had a major stroke. This lady got her mother medicade so that she could be hospitalized. She went to see a lawyer, and the lawyer advised her not to sign anything at the hospital. The mother did not (after the stroke) recognize anyone. She had a second stroke that left her a vegetable. The lady had a DNR put in her mothers records at the hospital. She then had a heart attack. The resuscitated her. The lady went to Miami to see what the problems were. She reminded them that being as her mother was terminal, and would never recover from the stroke, she was DNR!. Again she had a heart attack and they resuscitated her. Again, this lady went to Miami to find out what was the problem with the DNR order. Again, she told them DNR! After her medicade ran out at the hospital, they transferred her to a nursing facility where she finally had another heart attack and died. The hospital would NOT stop resuscitating her as long as there was medicade money to be had. Golddigging SOB's.

Mater01 read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 5:38 PM

Now that makes sence!

ZiggyFla read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 8:15 PM

This is terrible about all your loved ones. I would be majorly pissed off to go through this. So in order to have a DNR request granted is the answer to not die in a hospital? I have seen too that when the FD responds to homes and there is a DNR order, they DNR and start making all the proper phone calls. Mater I'm glad your trip was safe and I'm sorry your friend had to go through all that. He should leave someone in charge of a law suit just for the pain those people have put him through.

Mater01 read my blog view my photos
Dec 19, 2007 | 8:34 AM

The down fall to this is I no longer live up there and he can't get around or drive. I would take care of the law suit for him if I was up there, but I can't without damageing my own business and income. It's a no win situation. If I was still living up there then I would make them pay and their heads spin, no dought or second thought!

candyaquino read my blog view my photos
Dec 19, 2007 | 10:20 AM

Mater01..I feel for you. I haven't stop praying and thinking about you and your friend..its weird..I feel so close to two-snakes and May God be with him, if there's anything I can do, please do not hesitate to ask. Georgie had a good point...these scums as long as they can sucked money out of the system they will do it..my mom went through this and it was a very very difficult time for me. God Bless You and Two-Snakes I truly hope for a miracle and that you can figure it out.

Mater01 read my blog view my photos
Dec 19, 2007 | 4:31 PM

Thank you Candy!!!! I am trying to work it out in my mind on how I can get mean about this and fight them.

I did bring back my sister's ashes. He said there wasn't no one else he would trust enough but me to take care of her and love her. I was the only one that never asked him for anything of his or her's and he knew how close me and Cindy was. I have missed her but now I have her to talk to again! That right there was the best gift he could give me or that I would even care for. I am going to try and help him pay for all he needs to be taken care of but I am limited.

candyaquino read my blog view my photos
Dec 23, 2007 | 1:39 PM

Mater01 how are you? Hope you are doing well as your friend. May I suggest, if Two-snakes would give you power of attorney to represent him - he can start the suit regarding the DNR DO IT FOR THE PEOPLE - it would be great to bring this story out to the public..I am sure you would get lots of responses...

I just figured out why I may be feeling attached to Two-snakes, my dad all through his life kept Indians figures around the house..I looked over some of his stuff that I have and found the pictures of the Indians; I have an original dream catcher made by a friend of my dad who was Indian...and just recently I visited St. Pete's Pier and met a real Indian...love it...my best to you and Two-Snakes...may God be with you both to give you the strength you need...

Mater01 read my blog view my photos
Dec 23, 2007 | 11:29 PM

I'm already on that thought, thanks! I've been really busy this past week and the work seems unstopable. And the best to yet to come. I hope you and yours have a very very Merry Christmas! You should take the family to one of there Pow Wow's! You should get every one in your family to make their own Dream Catcher to hang on everyone's bedroom window. It only works when it becomes a part of you or blessed by a Medicine Man! He did tell me about his successer. He sounds like a good choice and a good man. People can learn alot from the Indian Tribes and people. But only a few Nations will not.

Mater01 read my blog view my photos
Dec 23, 2007 | 11:32 PM

I'm sorry...I had Medicine Man on my mind...I ment to say Holly Man which could also be their Medicine Man.

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Mater01

I'm not an rusty ole truch anymore cause I've been Tokyo'd 'GET-R-DUN' upgraded Chevy Wecker/Tow Truck named Mater who lives in a small town on Route 66, in the middle of nowhere-s-ville>>I love helicopter rides, racing, and getting into trouble in a fun way with my buddies>>I have neon lights and a whole NEW look with that>>'GET-R-DUN'>>Attitu
de>>TOKYO BOUND!

Member Since: 7/1/2007